What I think about PHPFusion

Well I see your points. And agree on certain bits like the banning account bit of it. But with the length of time thing. Its not their fault! We can't blame them for having to work in their work places to get money. PHP Fusion is a small time fun thing for them when they get spare time to do so. For Example one of the admins at the offical themes support site hasn't posted a forum post in over a month! But because hes busy with work. So thats my main reason

Yea, I get your point but still. If I was at work doing coding all day. If I was to go on PHPFusion in my break time, I would at least respond to a couple of posts...helping people is something that energizes me.

Wasn't all this suppose to change with the whole team change? Seems to me like things just got worse. There is never any updated news on the site, the theme site is alwasy dead and well the beta site has a little bit of activity. It all just makes you wonder, doesn't it? :(

yea, nothin ever changes on php-fusion...the only person who actually changs anything is digi...he has like no help. his admin staff ponder around the forums...in my own perspective, the admins never help...and when they do, it's like forever and then they they tell you to stop complaining about how you double post a lot to try and get your question answered. We couldn't be double posting everywhere if the admins did their job right. I mean yea, people go here to have some fun in their spare time but jeez, help some people while you're at it.

I think you are being a bit hard on the admins and the members for that matter.

PHPFusion is free and as such is a hobby for the hardworking admins (unless you have donated via paypal etc ?)

I try to answer question, when I feel I can help.
But I, like many (?), want to ensure that the answer we give is correct and will not allow you to damage your site / code / database in any way...

So, ask questions but don't expect an answer in a day or two - wait 3 or 4 days - maybe post a little more detail on your question - or try to clarify it. But don't bump a thread every couple of hours because nobody is running around for you :|

Well, I was around when razorblitz07 was banned, and it was NOT because you asked too many questions. It was because you were using abusive language towards those who didn't answer your questions in the way you wanted them answered. Plus, you constantly complained about your questions not being answered in the shoutbox and you were generally disruptive to the entire board for at least a whole day. Tell the whole story, not just the part that supposedly makes the admins on here look like evil people.

Do you want to know why many of the questions go unanswered on here? 90% of them could be answered by searching the forums, reading the manual, or even searching a little on Google because the answer is PHP or MySQL related and not unique to Fusion. Basically, the admins are tired of answering the same questions over and over and over (and over) again.

Please folks, search a little before running to the forums. Do a little legwork yourself and you'd be amazed how much you'd learn from the experience. You'll never learn if every small answer is given to you that you could find yourself with just a little effort.

There are 2 reasons I've been away from Fusion for the last several weeks: (1) I'm learning other CMSes because while Fusion is great for many things, I just can't get the design look I want without a bunch of custom coding that breaks existing code. Believe me, its not fun because Fusion is so dang simple (but powerful still) and I'm having to fire the brain cells back up again, but Fusion gave me an excellent base. (2) I got tired of the level of questions on the forums. 90% of the questions on here are due to people who don't have clue of what they're doing and others who refuse to read directions. They want someone to hold their hand almost every step of the way, and that eventually wears on folks.

Know what I don't see on the forums of the CMSes I've been working with? Questions like "how do I make a site" or similar. Instead, I see intelligent communication on a variety of subjects on doing complex things, not just the simplest of things. Why? Because the "needy" folks had been weeded out long ago. Their questions NEVER get answered. Is that "elitest" or "snobby"? No, it just means that they figure if you want to actually run a site that you'll have at least enough competance to create a database and read directions. I mean, that's what the readme is typically about. READ IT! I've already told you what to do next.

Sorry if anyone thinks this is harsh but all of the Help Vampires have drained this site dry.

Kejohn,

PHPFusion purports to be (and may very well be) one of the most simple-to-use CMS packages on the market. Therefore, it attracts the user base it targets - novices.

People who know more use the likes of Xaraya or make their own website from scratch. I like PHP-fusion because of its simplicity. I have a few brain cells that I use towards being a professional in my own field; I have no time to learn PHP or MySQL. So guess what, I will from time to time ask stupid questions. But people like me make up the user base, without which PHPFusion will be nothing but a time-consuming hobby for its creators.

kejonn that wasn't me you were talking about? I would newer ask such a question.;):D


Seriously. I can understand bouth sides but the problem is some of us realy have no time to learn php and mysql. For example I am a 3D artist and animator and I have to learn several programs (not just two of them) which have more or les infinite posibilities. So when asking for ("dumb") help some of us realy don't have a clue on how to fix certain "simple" things with php. It would be nice if some php experts do take in consideration this.;)

@docmike, part of this is true. Fusion IS very simple and caters to novices. But sometimes these novices want to venture out and do something Fusion doesn't offer as a core package or through infusions/mods. All well and good, but sometimes these things have been answered before and a simple search would prove as much. Also, as I said, sometimes you just have to learn a little more if you expect to do more.

As a professional in your field, did you learn much on your own to get to that level or did you gain all of your experience by giving up on new stuff after 5 minutes? If you did, you're probably still not the true professional you call yourself. Expertise comes through hard work and hard earned knowledge.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions if you searched for answers first (on here AND a site like Google) and then exhausted possibilities. It doesn't even have to be an hour or more of trying but it can't be asking without doing a little research first. If so you're just leeching off of people's voluntary time while you put very little effort in. That's a "gimme gimme" mentality and its not good.

If you have that mentality, then maybe you should consider paying for someone to do your site. There are all sorts of companies/individuals who do web design.

@kejohn:

It's only a matter of time before, in the course of any discussion, someone reminds someone else that "the software is free and you should just be happy with what you get, or else go pay someone to do it."

Here's an idea: we are dealing with an open-source project. When someone suggests an improvement, why send them away to seek out a paid solution? How about remaining within the open-source realm and trying to improve the current situation instead?

Don't get me wrong now. In the world of fee-for-service, it's amazing to get something like this for free. I appreciate that and am very acutely aware of the dedication of the team.

I do agree with your statements that people should search the forums for the answer first, or try to RTFM or find the answer somewhere. However, you will surely admit that there is a high screwup potential when dealing with a database-driven website. People want to avoid doing something wrong and messing up their site. This is natural for novices, so they ask. Some people do not know how to search the forums here (the search algorithm requires you to know the search terms exactly). Etc. Some people do not have the time to tinker and spend hours when an expert can type in their answer in about 20 seconds.

But the final point is simpler still. "Help Vampires," as you call them, are not going away. So the community must learn to deal with them. How about creating a PHPFusion Wiki or some kind of other searchable, indexable knowledge base, for instance.

Yes, there will always be people who just don't get it or continue to screw up even ater they have been given the answer. But you have those in every industry.

That's where you're totally wrong. Never said be happy with what you get or look for a paid solution. But what I do suggest is that if you can't get what you want with the core package and mods/infusions, you'll likely have to come up with something yourself or pay someone to do it for you. This is definitely the case if the feature you want is going to be fairly specific to the site you want.

For instance, I wanted to have an infusion that would accept submissions of certain groups and then store them in a directory. These could then be searched by location, either by state or within a certain mile radius depending on zip code. This was fairly unique (though could have been tailored for other things) to my site so guess what I had to do? I coded it all myself. If I had not I would have had to pay someone.

Look at Joomla/Mambo and even PHP Nuke. There are alot of custom mods/add-ons and themes for those CMSes that people actually sell. Except for a very short period (and they didn't sell), I've yet to see this in Fusion. We have an official mods site, themes site, and Shedrock still has great themes on his site. All of this is free and while there haven't been a lot of mods being churned out lately, there are still many available. The calendar infusion I made took many, many hours and I didn't make a penny from it. I did it for the community.

I've often said we need a better FAQ list or whatever. But the fact still exists that a quick forum search may do just as well. And as to the one's who don't get it or screw up, perhaps now you see why there are so many unanswered posts...

Finally, sometimes people don't readily know the answer. If you ask "how would I do this" and the answer would require me to spend 30 minutes (or more!) generating the answer while all you did was type in the question, I'm probably not going to answer it. My time is as precious as anyone elses.

I agree w/ kejonn 100% on this issue! Now my turn on how I feel about this Topic! I spend over 20hrs a week just making Themes to release to the PHPFusion Community for FREE and never ask for anything in return except for a simple Link and credit to be kept in the footer of the Theme. I get Members who Download Theme after Theme and remove the credits! Then they have the nerve to ask for help after I spent hrs. already helping by making this Theme which is now being used on there site w/out my deserved credit. If I dont finish a request in time or dont have a answer at the moment its asked then attitudes start flying. Staff on these sites have lives of there own. I spend 50+ hrs a week working my job and 20+ hrs contributing to PHPFusion and somewhere in the middle is my wife and 3 kids. It seems I need to do better prioritizing in my life but my Family knows that PHPFusion is something that keeps my mind at ease and I enjoy the Community. People seem to forget this is a Community where we are all here to help each other. But it seems there is so many that want help from others but cant seem to help themselves or seem to think that everyone should stop what there doing and help them right then. The ones that throw attitudes around and demand help or post Help in the shoutbox because there to lazy to start there own Thread is the ones I WILL NOT HELP( On my site or the Official Theme Site ). We have over 800 members already on the Official Theme Site and over 10k on this site. Now compare the numer of Members w/ the number of Staff Members. ( I know some people will ask for help on this in the shoutbox so dont try comparing ) As for Staff Members logging in for 7 min or so and leaving w/out answering any post! What about PM's my friend? It seems the Staff keeps a full inbox which Members seem to forget about. This is a method of support! Is it not? I have said enough regarding this Topic and know it may step on the toes of some Members but oooo well **** happens sometimes. Im just tired of everything always falling on the back of the Staff Members and this Great CMS. If you think the Support is bad here then go to PHP Nuke or another CMS of your choice and try asking for help there the way its asked for here. I guarantee you will be back! So G'Day my friends!

I am speaking for no one but myself.


When I took the leap of creating a website. I knew there would be some head scratching times ahead. Time management was critical at times. I had to learn balancing work and creation of content. The whole while learning the in's and out's of how a great site becomes a great site. It took time and energy. I am sometimes fed up with dev, then something new comes across my plate and it gets refreshed. I will probably never stop learning. Reading all the time can be a bore. Then that one tid bit comes my way, and bam!! W00t, New things to try. New and issues come hand in hand. Could that be, new issues in hand??


After I cut my teeth on HTML, then CSS. I felt something more was in store for me. Dynamic sites was next in line. At first I rushed. That was a bad idea. So I found out there was CMS products out there. Sure I tried a few. Had to learn the basics of how to get them to fire up and work .. at least sort of. After a bit of a learning curve. I got the basics down. Then I found out I could do more. I knew there was a heap load or reading piling on my plate. I wanted more then my fingers could give me. So I set out to find an easy CMS.

I found PF. I liked it alot. It has everything I needed out of the box.

Simple install, good base of tools inside of it. Loads of free goodies to try out. I was interested. Yes I tired a few others first. They just didn't do it for me. Am I starting to outgrow PF, might, but I use it as a tool, for more then displaying content. The base of code for free, is awsome for me.

Every question I have asked or post I made. Which is few and far between. I try to make it as full of details and interesting as my fingers can produce. I feel how I post, is a reflection of my site. (yes I am boring and long winded)

The most amazing thing about this CMS.. I found anyways. Is that I can study all the nice infusions so my own knowledge is expanded. If I have an interesting question on a topic, it might get posted. So far I haven't had but a few issues or questions. (One of the staff fixed me up right fast.) Heck I even learned something from it. I read my tail off until I got an answer I could use. I didn't expect a stranger to come to my aid. Any help I got or might get in the future, will always be very appreciated. I don't expect to get an answer. (If I do, w00t!) I know that at least there is something other then coding a PHP-SQL site all on my own. If I do happen to need help on a tough topic for me. Why I try and keep it in perspective. If I do happen to get help. I thank the folks who did, and follow up with a conclusion. No answer, I try and keep it in perspective, Hey maybe the person who does have an answer hasn't been to the site. Most the time, I just read that much more. If I can't find a fix on my own in a number of day ( usually 5 or so) I will consider a bump. The whole time I am trying to help myself. it is just nice to hve the little bit of extra help in the wings.

I will quote a funny saying I read once.

"It is a website, not a nuclear reactor"


I don't rely on others for the smooth running of my site. That is my job. If someone helps me by creating some php or other code. I am thankful for that. Writing from scratch takes longer then asking for help. Sometimes some foregt that and take the easy route. PHPFusion works pretty dang good out of the box. Security is taken care of as fast if not aster then most other packages out there. That would be my only groan for speeds on response times. So far, I see that that is far from any concern of mine. The rest is up to me.. Otherwise I would of not wanted a dynamic site. I would of stuck with good old fashioned HTML/CSS.


Unless your loosing money, wait it out sometimes, and see what it brings.


/end of novel

I'd also wouldlike to stress an important matter here and I must say that I agree with the above mentioned statements made by Kejonn and uctxs.

The community here sure is demanding, but that is due to the quality of the service. Its like an education issue, peeps are used to a prompt response on almost any question. Alas, this does not mean that almost any question WILL get a prompt answer.

One thing is certain, one can't pretend to learn php or mysql from asking in some forum. Seek out examples from within the base code, mods or outside tutorials. Zend Technologies has a complete manual that covers ALL of the PHP functions and even will cover stuff not available in many of the hosts due to them being running v. 4 series of PHP.

If you still remain clueless after seeking out a nice round of self-help. Think about respect. Ask your question as if the person(s) READING the question are of the utmost importance to you. Not just the ordinary "I'll ask these guys and see what happens" kind of thing. When you write your question think like "There are a lot of knowledgeable members, I will ask in the forums because I tried my best and I did not get results".

Do not DEMAND help, no one HAS to help you, we all know the rhetoric about how much we all paid for PHPFusion and stuff, there is no need to be demanding about anything.

Pretty much I am echoing some of the stuff mentioned previously, but I also want to share my own experience in the year or so that I have been using PHPFusion.

As the author of this thread, I began using PHPFusion for a gaming site. The game is World of Warcraft and I had a guild site to build. Yes, I previosuly had a pure html site with a lot of pages and it was all nicely framed and stuff... but when I saw PHPFusion I couldn't hold myself back.

My knowledge about php was NULL, ZERO, NOTHING, NADA! I was totally lost looking at those $result=dbquery... blah blah blah... then I learned it was attached to a database and I was all the more clueless.

What did I do? Oh I came to the forums and demanded help... NOT! I found me a free code editor, and began opening up the core files and looking at the syntax. I started to try to make sense of the code and see what things had what effect on what was being displayed on the site.

This is learning by logic, hitting yourself against a wall ocassionally, but I think it is a lot more productive for our self-learning, to open the manuals, read the FAQs, search Google and retain some knowledge while we r at it, than just comming here demanding some help cuz u gotta help me. We are wrong if we think that we HAVE to be helped because this is a support site. I have got no help from the customer service line at my ISP and I have had an Internet connection that goes offline when it rains... how do you call that kind of support?

Basically, instead of asking asking asking in the forums... lets do some research of our own, thin down the possibilities, ask yourself as much as you can, coding and web design is a job for smart people, not anyone can come up to a computer and figure things out, so show yourself you are up to the task, and teach yourself the good stuff just as I did back then when I began using this CMS. No I am not saying you r dumb, but I am saying that you need to show yourself you are able to do at least that on your own. Search for the info, syntax, code your own page of php stuff and make it work within fusion, do experiments and try new stuff!... I mean, my site has all kinds of custom stuff and most part I made them... I had Kejonns calendar for some time, but the guild did not need an event scheduler so I dropped it, Shedrock's shoutbox came with some tooltimes, and I figured out the code to give those tooltips to the user info panel... simple things like, looking stuff over and testing to see if it works. Being a novice in coding requires more time to test, and my friend you have two fansites (gamesites) you do not need to rush yourself, the users of your sites can wait a week more if you dont have a theme ready or a table up. They simply go there post stuff up in forums and chat around. Your site wont fall apart if you dont come up with some new flashy thing, so try to set aside the WANTS from the NEEDS and clear out the NEEDS accordingly.

Thats more or less my advice, experience and bit of wisdom on the subject. This is merely a logic and reasoning issue. Anyone smart enough to pursue knowledge in coding and web programming languages must have the inteligence to know that with a strong demanding attitude we go nowhere. Greet the people that will help you, thank them for their help, invite them to see the results of their help, show them how this helped you, make them KNOW that their help was awesome, for that help is what makes THIS community unique. As uctxs said, go to Mambo/Joomla or PHP-Nuke and ask the same way we ask in here... you'll grow a long white beard before u get 2 replies... and the first one will be an announcement about your thread being removed due to inactivity.

So, bottomline is... for those who get help, let us be grateful, and if you are seeking out help, just chill out and be concise when asking, dont float about with vague explanations. Post the code, include the php file as a zipped attachment and wait patiently, bump after ONE WHOLE day if it is urgent, if not simply bump after a week... be kind, no need to rush if no rush is deemed necesary.

That is my loose change on the issue... cuz I think thats more than just ten cents?

Aight mates, cheers and great job!

PS:ucxs, nice theme site u got man! real cool themes!

Outstanding post enablingwolf and elvenelf! This could not have been said any clearer!

It brings me back to a yr. ago when I made my very first Theme ( Simplified2 )! It was nothing fancy, just simple and clean! Then out of blue someone came to my site and started offering me Tips on the proper layout of Themes and positioning of images etc. This someone then offered to take my New Theme and add a few of his own touches to it which just blew me away with the final Theme. He then explained to me the different extensions that could be used for the images to allow for a faster loading time of your site. ( He didnt even ask for credit on this Theme ) I knew from that point on that PHPFusion was for me and that Themes is what I wanted to do. I owe a HUGE thanks to this someone aka Argentum! This is the kind of support that PHPFusion offers! If it wasnt for Argentum guiding me through my first Theme I probably wouldnt have taken the interrest that I have and created the 62 Themes that I have in a 11 month period. Its not the Theme that got me hooked on this great CMS, it was the Support offered to me w/out me ever having to ask for it! Thanks Argentum for being such a great guide and Thanks to everyone else for keeping me motivated and inspired to release more Themes. I look forward to assisting anyone who needs help, just please show respect when asking.

@Elvenelf ...: Thanks my friend for the great comment!

As an Admin on the themes site I would like to say it is NOT dead

wow, so much emotion in one single thread.