PHPFusion layout discussion

That's the final word from the boss. (No, not me! lol) :)

EDIT: And fix the title of the thread please it looks bad and misleading for the project.
Thanks

I see where this is going, i will answer as quick and on the spot i can. You will not get any more replys from me.

When you call a standard and very usable and by far the worlds most used and practical layout as discontinued in a thread with a topic like Official PHPFusion layout. It is offensive.

Then you continue with demands to show Fusion site examples to prove that the way we do it now are more or less worthless because you dident find any sites that use it.
Everyone who have worked with Fusion for a while know the sites you asked for exists in tons. Its just plain rude by you.

You dident meet the answers you where given , you switched and attacked from a new angle rather than see what was written.

After all that you question the community that you cant change things altho ive mentioned atleast two times how you would do it if thats your ambition.

Finaly you question the meaning of next.
I can only say that i can not see your revolutionary ideas posted as code examples that we can use for PHPFusion there.

This is a negative energy draining thread wich leads to nothing good.

@halisson:

That's something you have to accept here, when you don't have the same opinion...

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I did not create this thread to offend other people's ideas, but I started this topic to discuss new directions. My intention is not to discuss just two or three columns. I wanted to provoke an effervescence of new ideas.

On the other hand, I would like to understand what is PHPFusion. Only the encoding based on "ideas encapsulated" within a single group? Or PHPFusion project is part of a truly free world? Did I get it all wrong from the start? The only free thing in PHPFusion is the fact that I can use your code? Ideas can not be discussed in a more egalitarian? Or the free world only serves to publicize the project and be commanded? What is the meaning of next.php-fusion.co.uk? Contribution or Manipulation?

Hey guy's! I'm on PHPFusion since 2008. I chose PHPFusion by choice. I have continued the administration of the Brazilian site because I like the PHPFusion. Do not treat me like any. Do not treat me as a guy who hates the project.
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(I want to say that *I'm not the author* of the layout, I've just make a PHPFusion theme from a WordPress one -as Domi rightly said-, *all* merits and credits goes to Codestar.)

Note: when you'll read "we" in this post, you've to read it as "my very personal opinion of what me and other PHPFusion {place your favourite role here} guys [...]".

Two columns, three columns, one columns, gazillion of columns.. I don't know which is the best solution ever. I think we should provide the freedom to designer about layout, we should provide a don't-make-me-think Content-oriented Management System -- well, PHPFusion's portals are Community Managed Sites :D

The point is: PF manages the "very main" content; the related contents: navigations, complementary navigations; and the not-related ones: shouts, polls, latest comments/threads/online users and so on. We call them panels and decided to put them over, above and next to the content, which is a good solution because it may match everyone taste. It may, and it may not. It depends by users, you need usability tests for that. We cannot test how usable are all the PHPFusion sites (and what they aim), so we try to make the best solution possible to manage every situation.

I couldn't know how www appeared 15 years ago, but ten years ago I started surfing in a sort of multi-framed acid trip "internet explorer optimized" web, an animated .gif and java objects hell, with a 56kb modem. Very few sites were "readable", very few quality contents, vary bad design choices. Now: more the designer, best (prettily) the experience (mostly); more the writers, best (readable) the contents (mainly); more the developers, best (usable) the web.

(Btw: usability and accessibility should be the bases of SEO/SERP too, because of semantic-oriented spiders/bots.)

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sorry for any mistakes or bad grammar

To be perfectly honest, I don't think you have a clue as to how WWW looked like 15 years ago. Perhaps you were not even born back then? Anyway, stop exaggerating, I've been online since 1995 and trust me, there was nothing remotely close to PHPFusion back then. There was not even that many CMS's around at all, Joomla didn't exist until 2005, so please, stop all silly and incorrect comparisons.



So very wrong. Ever heard of "Content is King"?

As for Bifrost, it was a giftwrapped turd, and we cannot support that kind of kakka, a turd is still a turd even when it comes in a nice package.

As Domi says above, most of the leading and also succesful websites use this type of columns, like Washington Post, Le Figaro and others.

So what is this discussion about? If you're developers, why do you sit here and moan about this or that theme? Go code something smashing you wanna see on your website instead. Code more and talk less, is my suggestion. You're free to code whatever you want, if you feel like creating a triangular shaped Theme, by all means, you have every right to do so.

We decide what theme we have on this site. You decide what you code. What's the problem here? I see no problem, just a difference in taste. That is good and can be used creatively. This whole discussion is a big waste of time, hell, if I could code, I'd code something awesome instead of arguing in here.

Your analogy speaks for it self, Let Ferrari stick with their , Google with their and we with ours, thats our TM!



You really need to start doing your homework before writing.

I will not list any of them thousands of examples for you due to obvious reasons.

However we do have quite a few goverment and community controlling organs using PHPFusion along with educating opinion builders etc.

Its just a ridiculous statement to say that we use a discontinued theme here. Take a look at just about all leading newspapers layouts. Thats right, most use 3 columns, some use two.
Try exclude left or right panels from the admin interface and a new world will openup, even with a "discontinued theme".


I will give you an A on the Bifrost analysis with one extra note, it will not change with new similar themes. PHPFusion content are generaly not made for that type of themes.

To just walk in and think you can set a new standard with a hunch that its the best for the future will just not work, it needs time.

I can only quote my self for the rest.

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@DOMI:

Yes, engine strong, beautiful layout, usability and search engine optimization. In no time we disagree that these things are important. But they can go together, okay?

I answer with an analogy: A car ferrari has a nice design, a bold panel, an extremely powerful engine, a highly professional team and fans around the world. On the other hand, the search engine Google is extremely minimalist and became the world's most used search engine. What I mean is that we can not be radical. We must take advantage of every resource. Be a minimalist look or have a look full of interactivity.

Give me a practical example of PHPFusion in a government project, corporate, or use for entertainment or education? Does it exist? This is your dream for PHPFusion? That our CMS PHPFusion is used by only a handful of people? What I realize is that you hate to follow the good tendencies of modernity. This is not exactly a defect, it may even be good for balance, but can be very harmful if you want to be radical.

You use a discontinued theme to justify their traditional thinking. The Bifrost is a beautiful visual. The problem is not visual. The great sin of Bifrost is the structure of the layout. Perhaps it lacked a plan. But the look is still very beautiful to me. We can not completely rule out the theme, that would be a grave mistake. And in my humble opinion, which gives motion to PHPFusion in the UK is the Forum. Unfortunately Bifrost developers not were careful to highlight the forum. They did not realize how much this part of the site is important. As a result, visitors not could see no interactivity on the site.

I hope you can understand my bad English ... thanks!
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I understand all users do not code but for users who do code and play around with PF this is easy to achieve.

Here is one example of what I mean by you can determine the layout of your site by using one panel.

This example will give you one centre panel upper and 2 lower centre panels below that paste it into a centre panel and include it to display on the pages you wish to include it on using the panels restriction.
This is just one example using divs of course you can use good old fashioned tables as well and of course the possibilities of layouts is endless all done via one panel.

You could evn put the navigation panel in there in a div a the side.



I am not saying this is user friendly I am just saying really if you know how then you can do a lot to make your site look good no matter how old the theme or how shiny it is it's all about getting the layout right, well for now this can be achieved using the panels admin.

Its a good thing that we stay recognizable, look at Googles search page, still works like a charm.

If we mean themes that are Bifrost and look-a-likes i dont agree that they are good themes and that they are the only mainstream types that works these days.
This goes especially for PHPFusion since most content are not created for that type of themes here.

Two column themes usualy work very well with most PHPFusion content as seen from the Italian port of the WP OverAll theme and similar themes.

One of the more serious questions here are that most people do not know how it works so the type of themes such as bifrost will have a very small userbase who can adjust their content to the theme.

I do not see the need for PHPFusion to strive for layouts that once where fresh but now starting to become mainstream just about everywhere.

I see the need for us to stay as PHPFusion and remain PHPFusion with a strong core that are flexible for the pro´s and easy for the beginners.

Within that reasoning anyone here can make the most of whatever they want and share it for the rest of us to use. If the creations you share become very popular you will set a standard for PHPFusion by your self wich will trigger more people to go the same path with the logic consequence that more content will be adjusted and optimized for just that so eventually dinosaurs like me will accept it, just like that... ;)

Also i need everyone to be aware of a reality.
I have very horrifying numbers that show the PHPFusion community decreasing since the bifrost where launched, a very small percentage of our old core users seemed to have approved that type of approach.
When i say horrifying i mean it. I have estimated the numbers to a community decline to more than 70%, so no iam not buying the mainstream talk.

CMS should be all about layout. It should be about the experience of using it. So its a little bit dumb (I dont want to offend :)) to say that if you want that kind of layout (like fusion) you should use fusion and nothing else. CMS should give a possibility to use any kind of layout user wants without having it all rewriten.

And I agree with halisson that layout structure should be separated from management engine :)

And Craig,
panel in panel? Actually I dont think this is possible ant that it would be easy to use for 'anyone' :)

This is what panels is for if you wish to achieve other layouts then that can be done by inserting divs or tables inside panels.

If you want you could use one panel for you home page with other panels inside that panel so basically what you mean is now possible.

I think that php-fusion has right now all that it needs to make a good theme, but it's missing two things, people who understand how it works, and people who really know how to make a good theme.

I agree with Halison and Creatium. I have thought a bit about what KEY things might make PHPFusion what they/some of us, seek.

A more flexible panel management, allowing for resize to a greater extent. Panels that span over and under each other, 5 vertical columns (instead of todays basic 3) could with spanning become several layout items that can be combined in many, or very few, different site results.

We can have many vertical panels as it is today, piling them upp one above the other in three vertical rows, but they lack any kind of coherence, they occupy the space they need and can not easily be given a fixed size/placing.

Just some ideas...

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We must separate the layout structure and the management engine.

This thread is not to choose the best CMS, but rather to discuss a concept of layout and organization of information on the screen.

thanks. :)
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I quite like the way php-fusion is now, that's why its the only CMS I love and use. :
If I wanted my site to look like the other cms you mentioned or that blog software thing you mentioned then I would use that software. :)

To be honest, PHPFusion always asociates for me with like 15-years-back designs. Dont know why... Maybe its structure, maybe it is presentation of PHP-F, that stayed almost the same all the time.

Italian NSS theme is really great. I also like the Bifrost theme. When I first time saw it I thought "Finally, something new in structure layout and presenting of fusion".

I think for now PHP-F is hardly editable to have all the possibility to use another type of layout. And 'failure' with Bifrost theme for main site I think was just another proof, when we were told that it was extremely hard to keep it up all working. Maybe we should take example from other CMS, like Joomla, Wordpress (yeah yeah, its not CMS you will say) and other.

I understand when people say that this is the way Nick made PHP-F. Yeah, its true, but will we stay with it all the rest of the time? What do you think?